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July 06, 2004

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Ryan

I think you misunderstood what this book was about. Those Marines are not "brainwashed". That makes it sound like they are robots. These men are the best this country produces. And yes! they have a mind of their own, which is absolutely necessary in order to survive when people are shooting at you. I'm not going to talk about Marine Corps training, because all you have to do is see a Marine in Dress Blues and I promise you can immediately identify that that is a professional. I'm glad you enjoyed the book, and yes Marines "lust for combat" in a sort of romantic way not understood by civilians. They are the only true warrior class remaining, and they are the best of friends to our allies, and the deadliest of enemy to our foes.

Josh Person

I am glad that you enjoyed the book and the insight that it offered. Maybe my perception is a little skewed, but, I am not sure i agree with the belief in the "brainwashing" effects of the Marine Corps. Men in the Reconnaissance field are screened and tested to be among the most effecient independent thinkers that our military has. The so called robotic actions are manifested out of a basic need for survival. If I did not act with up most hostility towards my enemy then my life was at a higher risk. As Ryan already explained the Marines have the highest code of morality and military conduct in our entire military. We are truely professionals in a profession that is often misunderstood. I am now a civilian and the transition has been flawless. I can distinguish between right and wrong and necessary and unnecessary. Semper Fidelis

Jay Patterson

I would take exception to 'brainwashing' as well. Indoctrination is a better word, but training is the best word to use.

Military training is by its nature designed to remove the civilian mores against killing. We are socialized from birth against killing, it is embedded in us as civilians at an instinctive level. War is a time when this mores must be taken away, and replaced with instinctive responses designed to allow a soldier to survive and function in a hostile environment that is the complete opposite of the safe civilian existence that we enjoy.

Discipline, reaction time, warrior proficiency, physical fitness, endurance and a willingness to supress and sublimate fears are critical to a soldiers survival and his squadmates. Other aspects of a soldier's training are designed to instill teamwork and unit cohesion to the extent that collective actions become instinctive and don't require discussion or consensus - time limits in combat are severely constrained and any hesitation can get you and your mates killed.

As Ryan rightly points out, this mindset is not something most civilians are familiar with, or are equipped to understand the necessities of. Nor I think is it something you want your civilian population to be too familiar with - it would mean they are terrorists, or victims of terrorist elements. Ask any Israeli or Palestinian.

M Gary

I just finished the book yesterday, and I think the one thing that struck me the most was that our military perseveres in spite of itself. That has to be a testament to the individual men and women involved. The chain of command does appear to be full of "retards" as Josh calls them - I understand following orders and what not, but blind obedience is ignorant as well - your chain of command is human, after all.

Additionally, the fact that our military is so highly technological but can't communicate effectively on radios is almost laughable. Truly pitiful. No wonder there's so much friendly fire. I think the Dept of Defense needs to get the military as a whole on comms that first of all, work, and second, work, if not between branches of the service, at the very least within each branch as a whole. One set of Marines not being able to communicate with another 5 km away because their radios aren't compatible is asinine.

Just my two cents.

Sean

I'm just about done with this book and as a Marine I have to say it speaks to my experiences quite well. There is some amazing individual training but if you take a step back you can see that:

1. These Marines were given minimal training on weapons systems they did not have the gear to maintain

2. Staff and officers were busy being war heroes

3. They thought every other unit around them was cowboys when they were amongst the biggest cowboys out there

4. Practically zero knowledge of vehicle-mounted tactics (single file column with little dispersion over a bridge with obstacles)

5. These guys pushed themselves are their equipment to the limits

6. They were human, they laughed/cried/rejoiced/mourned and most importantly they believed in each other.

HollywoodRefugee

I read this awesome book, personally know a Marine in the 1MEF who fought in Iraq and in Afghanistan, I loved the honest, raw, portrayal of these men and the experiences they shared. Marines have a special mythos, especially Recon Marines. At present, I am writing and sending care packages to over 25 Marines, some Recon who are deployed in Iraq now.Ive received the most awesome letters, some of which will be compiled into a book Im writing. These voices are not the ones we often hear reported in the media. Its about time we did.

I have a Live Journal where I have shared some of whats been sent to me. http://www.livejournal.com/users/hollywoodrefuge/

Brainwashed??...NO way...what these guys go thru is brilliantly expressed by Josh Person in a recent entry. Btw Josh rawks, and is one of my fave guys in this book.

As a Hollywood Biz Babe, I can verify that HBO is indeed working on turning this Book into an HBO movie. My only hope is that Josh will be allowed to play himself in the film.

Generation Kill is brilliant masterpiece that offers us insight into this MTV generation of young men who have a calling and who chose to honor that calling, one that protects all of us.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the recognition of something more important than fear.

These Marines have recognized what was more important than fear, and acted on it, and they paid a high price for it. They are all heroes, slightly twisted at times, but in a good way!

Semper Fi, OOORRAAAHHH, and GET SOME!


Hollywood Refugee

Pls forgive my 2nd post, but I wanted to add some further thoughts:

The insight into this unit that Evan Wright provides, I hope, will allow people to really understand the "human'" behind the uniform and the guns. Evan's account is personality-driven, capturing the personality of all the guys in the platoon – a colourful bunch of grunts to say the least. It’s an insightful look at the Iraq War's first month from the Marine grunt's point of view, and he paints a compelling portrait of a handful of young, street smart, hip, sexy, Marines, dedicated to the business of killing the enemy. I was blown away by this honest, raw, evocative account.

One Recon Marine, who I write to since reading the book and as part of the Adopt a Soldier program, reminded me that the motto of his battalion is "Swift, Silent, Deadly."

Evans' dedication at the begining of the book reads as follows:'The strength of the Pack is the Wolf." Its half of a quote from Kipling, as well as the Motto of these Recon Marines. The entire quote reads: The Strength of the Pack is the Wolf, the Strength of the Wolf is the Pack"

To grasp the meaning of that quote, is to truly understand who these warriors are and what drives them in combat.


The entire Recon Marine Creed is as follows:

Realizing it is my choice and my choice alone to be a Reconnaissance Marine, I accept all challenges involved with this profession. Forever shall I strive to maintain the tremendous reputation of those who went before me.

Exceeding beyond the limitations set down by others shall be my goal. Sacrificing personal comforts and dedicating myself to the completion of the reconnaissance mission shall be my life. Physical fitness, mental attitude, and high ethics -- The title of Recon Marine is my honor.

Conquering all obstacles, both large and small, I shall never quit. To quit, to surrender, to give up is to fail. To be a Recon Marine is to surpass failure; To overcome, to adapt and to do whatever it takes to complete the mission.

On the battlefield, as in all areas of life, I shall stand tall above the competition. Through professional pride, integrity, and teamwork, I shall be the example for all Marines to emulate.

Never shall I forget the principles I accepted to become a Recon Marine. Honor, Perseverance, Spirit and Heart.

A Recon Marine can speak without saying a word and achieve what others can only imagine.

I think that last line, defines all the Recon Marines I have come to know personally...and certainly defines those in "Generation Kill".

To Recon Marines everywhere, but especially to those of "Generation Kill" I say "GET SOME".

Semper Fi!

Corey Russell

What an awesome book. It's amazing how stupid some of the officers were. I wonder if some of the stuff really happened. Did Capt. America really freak out and cry during their last ambush? Did he scream out he was hit when he didn't have a scratch? How could anyone possibly take this guy seriously if he did do this. How is this guy still a marine? I would also like to know if slaughering defenseless civilians has had any ill effects on the men's psyche since returning home. I was a marine during the first Gulf War and I know all about the wind and dust storms. My nose didn't stop running the whole time I was there and it was sunburned several times. Never seemed to get that base tan that I needed. I have all of the respect for these guys and what they did. Spending all that time in their mopp suits had to be a bitch. I remember thinking how bad I felt for all the guys who were there when I saw them doing shit in their mopp suits on the news at night. I wish the marines all the best in the future. Even the sick and twisted officers who were spared and only named by their nicknames.

James Kielland

I also take exception to the term "brainwashing," primarily because it's just an emotive word. You can use the terms "persuaded" or "well-led" or "well-trained". Brainwashing is what we call it when people are persuaded to do something that we don't think we could do. Or when we've been brainwashed into believing we'd never do what they do.

M. Fairbanks

I too just finished reading Evan Wrights Generation Kill and I was rivited the entire time. He has done an excelent job of capturing the details, personality, and experiences so often never touched in journalism. Outstanding work Evan Wright!
About brain washing, certainly not. It's one of those things that if I have to explain you wouldn't understand. Now I was not in Iraq with these guys, but I did serve in my beloved corps and over two years with First Recon Batallion in the early 70's. I'm proud of these men for carring on the traditions or the corps and those values of First Recon and the warrior spirit. Not all Americans may approve of what these men can and do but the bottom line is American can't do without them either. Semper Fi!, Hurrrraaa!, Get Some!

Diane Proud Marine Mom

PS. I want to add that Josh was my fav in the book as well, he cracked me up! My kids were so sick of hearing about Marine stuff, thats all I ever talk about since my middle son joined. I have to say that when I read that book I'd tell my sons that were home,listen to this......I'd read parts of the book to them. The book was so good that my son would come in my room and say "Did Person say anything funny again" I couldn't put the book down! I always tell my marine parent support group about this book. Josh, if you read this, I want to say....... I am so proud to be an American because of young men like you. You guys are the true Hero's of this world, thank you for keeping me, my family and America safe! God bless you.

Preacher

I know several Marines. Their sense of duty honor and service to their families is a joke. They walk away from their families because their sense of duty honor and commitment is very low. Spare me the Grand Warrior rhetoric......anybody can be hide, shoot and kill trained to shoot.....anybody!

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